Stephen remembered hearing that the home was owned by all of the Burguières brothers, and that it stood the "test of time" until being destroyed by hurricane Katrina in 2005. Prior to Katrina, Stephen remembered, "Pepper Brown, Marion Clerc, and I toured a number of property locations facing the beach in Pass Christian. We identified one of the sites as being the location of the old Burguières cottage." Stephen pointed out that much of what he knows about the Burguières came from conversations with Pepper. When Stephen first met Pepper, he remembered that the JMB Company was for sale and he remembered the price as $9 million. Stephen said, "I called my father and told him that the Burguières family was about to sell 18,000 acres of land in the country when it was obvious to me and to everyone else that knew anything about the oil and gas business, that oil and gas were on their property." The year was 1977. He thought the sale was foolish and said that, "The thought of selling the property with its potential was insanity!" He added the fact that both Ernest Sr. and Uncle Jules were on national boards and held in high regard in the sugar industry and plantation management. Stephen cautioned that to tread on that history lightly, was to disregard the contribution that the family has made. Stephen Clayton, Pepper's friend and a good friend of the Brown and Burguières families, was born on October 29, 1946.

William Perry "Pepper" Brown

Stephen talked about Pepper, born October 29, 1947, not only with a personal sense of loss but with a sense of historical loss as it applies to the family and the city. He mentioned that Pepper was getting a masters degree in Louisiana history and that he knew the history of the city, the parish and the southeast part of Louisiana. Stephen said, "He knew that, and he knew where all the bodies were buried and unfortunately or fortunately didn't tell me where they were buried. Pepper was a gentleman of the old school and knew that there were things that you just didn 't talk about. He was quite brilliant about it and it is so sad that he died so young."

Scott Brown talked about his brother also in a most complimentary way. He pointed out that The Historic New Orleans Collection (detailed later in this interview) should have had Pepper involved from the very beginning because he knew all his family members and all the other families in New Orleans. Scott said, "He had an uncanny ability to remember everything about people he met or heard about and was able to fill in the blanks when anyone wanted to know something about someone." Stephen had a perspective about why The Historic New Orleans Collection had not involved Pepper. Apparently when Leila and Kemper Williams and the attorneys set up the idea for the Collection, they did not want anyone from the family involved as a board member from either his side or her side.

Stephen's opinion was that the JMB Family Council could archive photographs by scanning them and thus end up with better photographs than the originals. However, the originals should go to the Collection where they would be held and cared for through the years and made available. He said that what he did for a living was estate appraisals and he has discovered that after a generation or two, things begin to disappear, and people forget. Stephen went on to say, "Within one generation, relatives will forget who is who in older photographs. Some people actually throw the pictures away because they are a nuisance. Their attitude is, 'Mother gave us these old pictures and we don't know who these people are. Let's get rid of them!"

Francis "Scott" Brown

Scott Brown, born April 27, 1951, recalled how Ed Burguières would regularly update the Ernest branch of the family on Burguières business and how important it was a few years later when each branch of the family appointed one person from their branch to be their representative on the Company board. Scott felt that the approach eliminated in-fighting and disagreements that had plagued the Company for years, particularly during shareholders meetings. He was specific when he pointed out that communication had collapsed a few years back when a stock option proposal was placed on the table during the annual stockholders meeting. The way Scott recalled it, he had not been notified of the proposal and was vocal with his disapproval. Scott felt that the current Family Council should work on the communication side of its mission. Scott does not want family pictures kept at the Company office in Franklin, LA because flooding occurs and everything could be lost. He feels certain that the Collection has a provision to cover disaster circumstances.

The Moore Family

Tracing back to the early 1900's, Stephen told a story about how through marriage and relationships the Burguières were able to spread their influence throughout the state of Louisiana and Florida. He felt sure that Robert Moore, the father of Isabella Moore, was the person who originally convinced Jules Burguières, Jr. to go to Palm Beach, which led to the Burguières Florida investments. Robert Moore came from Liverpool, England and was originally of Irish decent. He came to New Orleans to work for his uncle in investment banking in the uncle's firm of Moore, Hyams and Co. The firm was founded in 1896 by his uncle and Chapman H. Hyams. Stephen described the Moore family as being an international family that travelled extensively. Robert Moore met Leila Hardie married her and raised a family. Their daughter, Isabella, met Ernest Aloysius Burguières, Sr. and they were later married. When Robert Moore's uncle died, Robert inherited everything. Stephen said, "He must have had a brilliant mind because he took the inheritance and multiplied it many times over." Robert Moore occasionally took his family back to England and also had a home in New London, Connecticut.

His next door neighbors in Connecticut, Edward Stephen Harkness and his wife, did not have children. Edward Harkness was very wealthy and successful and the Harkness family became good friends with Robert Moore and his family. Harkness was brilliant at finance and raising money. He also set people up in business. Interestingly, one of those business investments turned out to be with a member of the Rockefeller family. Edward Harkness was a major shareholder in Standard Oil and his uncle, Henry Flagler, was a founder of Standard Oil. Henry was the person who ultimately developed Florida property and the railroad that ran the peninsula of Florida to Key West. "Jeckel Island was one of the first islands that Harkness and Flagler helped develop and built houses on," said Stephen. With Mr. Harkness doing the financing, and Flagler doing the developing and building, they were a good team. From Jeckel Island they built on Amelia Island and from there built in Palm Beach, where they also built the famous Breakers Hotel. According to Stephen, Robert Moore's son-inlaw, Ernest Burguières Sr. had taken notice of the development activity through conversations with his father-in-law and must have shared his enthusiasm with his brother, Jules Burguières, Jr., Robert Moore is said to have been instrumental in convincing Jules, Jr. to go to Palm Beach and invest in Florida real estate. Ernest soon joined Jules in Florida, where they both invested in Southern States Land and Timber, Co.

After Edward Harkness and his wife died, they left furniture to Isabella Moore Burguières, who they had known well as a child and as a young woman. Today some of that furniture is in the home that Stephen and Pepper owned together and that Stephen now owns. A bed from the Harkness furniture collection is also in Asheville at Kemper Brown's home. Kemper is the brother of Scott and Pepper. Referring back to the romance and later marriage of Robert Moore's daughter to Ernest A. Burguières, Sr., Stephen told the story that prior to the serious courtship of the couple, Isabella was up to be Queen of Comus, the most prestigious carnival organization in New Orleans. Ernest Burguières was quite against the nomination. His reasoning was that Isabella spent so little time in New Orleans that she simply did not deserve to be Queen. In later years she laughed about it as Stephen recalled. Stephen remembers that she had a marvelous sense of humor. She thought the whole thing was amusing. After they dated and were married, it became a non-issue.

Scott Brown said that his grandmother and grandfather, Ernest and Isabella, were married in New London, Conn. Prior to Pepper's death, Pepper had always told the story that much of the wedding history was interesting because apparently the proper marital paperwork had not been procured and the wedding ceremony was in jeopardy. However, Justice White of the United States Supreme Court, a friend of Ernest, had been invited as one of the guests. It was decided that the Justice could marry the couple and paperwork details would be ironed out later.

William Perry Brown, III

The interview shifted to Perry Brown, III, the father of Scott, Kemper and Pepper. Perry Brown, according to Stephen Clayton, was a very complicated person. "He was brilliant and capable of doing anything he set his mind to, however he was very difficult in his later years." He apparently had a series of mini-strokes, and those episodes had changed his personality. It was difficult in those years to maintain a relationship with Perry because of the changes that he had undergone. According to his wife, Joan Burguières, and her three children, Perry had been a wonderful husband and father until the death of his mother. Scott remembered, "Perry was indeed a good father when my brothers and I were children because our father had many child-like qualities about him."

Perry was the original Buster Brown on New Orleans radio. "He always wanted to be an actor." Earlier in his life, Perry had appeared in a Broadway play with Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland. Even though the play lasted a short time, it was indeed a heady thing for Perry. He was also involved in local theater and was Program Director for the Screen Gems television station, WVUE-TV in New Orleans. At some later point he was with Paramount Studios in California. He also lived in New York. Perry wrote for local magazines, penned short stories which Stephen has given to Scott Brown, and had started a book about his experiences at Paramount. At least two chapters had been completed prior to Perry's death, and Pepper had read them.

OJ comments: In the late 1960 's I was also working for the Screen Gems television station in New Orleans. Perry Brown was program director at the time. We occasionally talked as distant relatives or at least acknowledged each other, but I was in sales and generally away from the station. Perry worked in a different department.

Perry Brown and Joan were divorced in 1970 or 1971. Scott Brown said, "My mother was always interested in horses and, she owned horses throughout her life." Scott's great grandfather, William Perry Brown, Sr., founded the Hibernia Bank. Originally from Columbus, Ms., he came to New Orleans and worked on the wharfs. He learned that side of the business and the brokerage side of the business. "His goal had always been to get control of the price of cotton not only for himself but also for all cotton farmers in the southeast. He did this twice," said Stephen.

Scott Brown's memory is that his great grandfather got his original stake from Europe. His activities were covered by The New York Times and The Times Picayune in New Orleans. He was well thought of in New Orleans because most of the cotton was planted in the southeast. However, on the east coast where the mills were, things were different. At the time this was taking place, there was no Federal Trade Commission. Consequently, there was no governing body. So finally the Congress of the United States went after Brown. Eventually William Perry Brown, Sr. settled with the Congress and he was fined $10,000. Even so, Brown was a hero in the south where cotton was king. Scott went on to say that William Perry Brown, Sr. built the big stone home on the comer of St. Charles Ave. and Valance St. in uptown New Orleans.

Family Photographs

Stephen had a Christmas card dated 1953. Scott and Pepper Brown were pictured on the front of the card. Scott remembered the picture being taken in their home on Hillary St. in New Orleans. Stephen shared a framed photograph of Isabella Moore taken on her wedding day and a photograph of Joan Burguières taken on her wedding day. Another photograph was a formal one dated 1905 of Ernest Burguières, Sr. in his early 20's. Stephen pointed out that the photographer who took this picture was well known in the New Orleans area and that his work was becoming collectable, especially those photographs that were signed. Stephen also recalled that he had a number of photographs in his possession of Ernest, Sr., that were taken by Carol Sagers, the same photographer who shot the Marlboro Man series of photographs.

The Burguières Brothers

Stephen was asked if Pepper Brown had ever told him what the responsibilities of the brothers were back in the early days and what Jules, Ernest Sr., Denis, and Henry Burguières did in the family business. Stephen had heard that Ernest, Sr. handled everything associated with the business in New Orleans, but had not been told much about Denis or Henry. Jules lived out in the country and ran the sugar side of the operation and was a world authority on sugar. He knew that Jules had accumulated a huge collection of books devoted to the subject of sugar. At Jules' s death a member of the Mcllhenny family, who was a good friend of Jules, bought the collection and donated it in Jules's name. Today, that collection is held by Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Stephen talked about how quickly the Burguières could make decisions on land purchases. He used as an example that during a fishing trip the brothers with their other companions discovered an island off of the Alabama/Mississippi line. The friends got to talking and before you knew it, they had agreed to try to buy the island. Everybody threw in a certain amount and the purchase commitment was made. He didn't know whether the deal was ever put together or not.

Stephen recalled details of Henry Burguières, Sr. He said that Pepper's grandmother, Isabella Burguières, had told him that when she was first married to Ernest, she went over to this huge barn of a house on Prytania St. in New Orleans. It was located on the comer of Prytania and Third. Isabella remembered that all of Henry's six children were still living in the house. She also remembered that Henry was always sick. The suggestion at the time was that he was a hypochondriac. When she visited she saw Henry bundled up in blankets in front of a potbellied stove. There were stables on the property at the time according to Stephen. After the Burguières sold the property, a cousin who had married granddaddy Brown's brother, Cora Bush, later owned the home. Her brother bought the stables, turned it around and made it a beautiful home. Stephen said the stable home faced Third Street.

Cypremort Plantation

We talked about the "Big" house that Denis P. J. Burguières, Sr. built at Cypremort in Louisa and what happened to it after Uncle Jules's death. Stephen remembered it being dismantled. The story goes, as Stephen had always been told, that a wonderful black cook worked in the house and loved to prepare fabulous meals, but no one ate at the house. None of the wives of the remaining brothers wanted to visit the house much less live in the country. It was big and drab. Ernest, Sr. went out to the country on a Monday and came back on a Friday. Ernest ran the business affairs after he returned from college at Spring Hill, Georgetown University, and Kentucky State University. He handled everything in New Orleans, including procurements of loans and relationships with the Whitney Bank. As the story was told by Stephen, the JMB Company was one of the first customers of the Whitney Bank. At some later time, the Company moved over to the Hibernia Bank which had been founded by the Brown family.

Stephen talked about the old field-hand cabins that existed on the plantation. All were made of cypress and were harsh statements of life in sugarcane country. He did not know what happened to the cabins. Sugar kettles were scattered all over the plantations and as years went by, many disappeared. Some family members got them, some were stolen and a few still remain. Stephen remembered taking a tour with Pepper through the sugar mill when it was still working and thought the experience was fascinating. He also confirmed that Jules kept his collection of books in a cinder block structure right behind the "Big" house. The structure was air conditioned to protect the books. Stephen remembered being told that Ernest Sr. was born in the Cypremort house at Louisa. That house was raised thirteen feet and remodeled in 2008. Stephen spent a few moments talking about the Burguières land and his opinion as to what the land should be used for. He said, "You've got a bloody fortune down there sitting on the Intracoastal Canal." Stephen also humorously suggested what the land could be used for. He said he always wanted to market raw sugar because it was good for you. "Thinking outside of the box is a way to continue growing the business," he said. "I was so glad that the Company wasn't sold and bringing younger people into the business was such a good idea."

Lifestyle

"All of the Burguières boys and Robert Moore were millionaires,” Stephen said. “Even during the Depression, Robert Moore had money and, as the story goes, even gave money to the Burguières Company to keep it going. That money may or may not have been paid back."

Stephen wanted to show how the Burguières lived in the 1950's. He showed a photograph of Ernest, Isabella, and Pepper going to an event at the home of Isabella's sister, Leila Moore Williams. They are entering a door with two footmen at attention on either side of the door. There was a photograph of Aunt Leila and her husband Kemper taken in the early 1950's at their home in the French Quarter. That home is now open to the public. It is part of the Historic New Orleans Collection.

Scott remembered, "The extravagant Christmas parties that Uncle Kemper and Aunt Leila would throw! Presents from FAO Schwartz were given to all the children prior to the cocktail hour. After that, the adults went to dinner and the children were shuffled off to bed in preparation for Christmas morning." Scott added that, "Aunt Leila was a lovely person. She was very demure." He also talked about his Uncle Kemper and Aunt Leila and how wonderful they were to the children. He pointed out how concerned he was that everything would be lost as time went by. Scott has an oil painting of Robert Moore in his possession. Scott's concern was that the important things from past generations will disappear or be lost and fall out of family ownership.

The Historic New Orleans Collection

Located at 533 Royal St. in the French Quarter of New Orleans, was founded in 1966 by General L. Kemper Williams and his wife Leila Moore. It has a primary mission of preserving the history of the French Quarter and New Orleans. There are seven restored architectural treasures in its Royal St. complex and the Williams Research Center on Chartres St.

Stephen remembered how Pepper felt about The Collection and how he really believed in what The Collection had accomplished. Pepper recognized that what they did was of great importance. The Collection had followed Uncle Kemper's and Aunt Leila's original wishes that it not be set up as a museum but that it first documents a history of the French Quarter. That was their first goal. Other than Elizabeth Werlein, and Leila and Kemper Williams, no one from uptown social families had ever gone to the Quarter and bought a piece of property, restored it and moved in. When they did, other families decided to take a look at the Quarter and reconsider its value.

About the same time, the Rockefellers from New York came down to New Orleans and took a look at the feasibility of developing the French Quarter. Ultimately, they walked away because of the expense involved. Stephen talked about The Collection as having become a repository of all things of importance. "It's the History of the French Quarter, the City, and the Parish and now it's taking over the entire Southern part of the state of Louisiana. They've got one of the best research libraries in the world. They've got a major collection of photography of the late 19th, 20th and now the 21st century. They have also created a museum of early art, furniture, and associated objects." As Stephen wrapped up the story, it was obvious that he felt The Collection would be the right place for Pepper's pictures.

Isabella and Ernest A. Burguières

Stephen recalled Ernest and Isabella as a couple. Isabella was brought up with an enormous amount of money. As a couple they travelled and lived that way. Both were wealthy according to Stephen. Pepper told Stephen that his four grandparents spoke French before they spoke English. Stephen described them as intelligent people who were learning about farming and implementing everything that they learned. With Jules, Ernest learned about the soil and how to make soil grow a bigger and better sugarcane crop. "As a couple, Ernest and Isabella were more formal, in other words, a handshake rather than a kiss and a hug. Ernest was one of the most amazing men; he aged rapidly as you can see in the photographs. He was young, and then he was older!" Stephen said that Ernest and Isabella deeply loved one another.

Scott and Stephen recalled that Isabella had an antique store and that she was one of the first uptown ladies in New Orleans to open a store in the French Quarter. According to them, Isabella had a partner in the venture. She held High Tea in those days in her home on Perrier St. One of the ladies who regularly attended High Tea was Janeida Elford, who was very prominent in the antiques business. Janeida was described as a staff sergeant by nature but nonetheless giving as she mentored and taught Isabella on the ins and outs of the antique business. Stephen occasionally joined High Tea and remembered Isabella as being very knowledgeable and street smart when it came to the value of furniture, china and silver. She also held private sales for people who needed cash, but who did not want their financial shortcomings known. The sale items were offered privately to potential buyers.

Ernest A. "Bubbie" Burguières, Jr.

Stephen and Scott declined to comment on the relationship between Ernest and his son, Ernest Jr. Stephen remembers that young Ernest was in a serious automobile accident and had a plate surgically implanted in his head. Scott remembers his uncle as being spoiled by his grandfather and being given anything. "He was a high-spirited man and a rough character."

Stephen and Scott were then asked about the Burguières Electric Automobile Co. that was located on Magazine St., one block uptown of Jefferson Ave. that Ernest had opened. Stephen didn't know anything, but Scott talked about the various other enterprises that Ernest was involved in. There was the central air conditioning business that he got into right after getting out of the service. At that time air conditioning was just becoming popular and Ernest was an air conditioning engineer. He also had a house in Nicaragua and spent a good amount of time in that country. Bouncing from idea to idea was Ernest's forte. Ernest was Scott's mother's brother and the oldest son of Ernest Burguières Sr., who was loved and respected by the whole family.

Jules M. Burguières, Jr., "Uncle Jules"

Stephen had great interest in Jules, describing him as a person he would like to have met. He said, "He was international. He had girlfriends all over the world." After Jules' s death, letters were found written between the then King of Spain's mother and Jules. The two were very good friends and wrote many letters to each other. Stephen did not know what happened to the letters. Jules visited Spain, and when political unrest overtook the country, the Queen mother visited New Orleans. On several occasions, Isabella had dinner parties for the couple.

Stephen told an interesting story about Jules's father and Ida, his second wife. She made numerous trips to Europe. To supplement her income and pay for the travel, she would buy linens and lace and advertise to the proper ladies of Birmingham, Alabama. She would go to the Tutwiler Hotel in Birmingham and rent a suite of rooms where she would sell her material. In those days, New Orleans was the epitome of culture in the old South, and the Birmingham ladies could not wait to get their hands on anything from New Orleans.

The Italian Branch and the Medals

Stephen told another story that he wanted us to hear. During WWII, there was a branch of the family that lived on Lake Como in Italy. They had inherited a number of medals that had been awarded to Dr. Edouard Edmond Burguières, brother of Eugene Denis Burguières and uncle of Jules M. Burguières, Sr., when he was part of the contingent that dug the Suez Canal. He was a doctor, and as the story goes, was first to discover the connection between water and malaria and tropical heat. As a result of his discoveries, patients were administered to in a more effective way. For his contribution he was awarded various medals by various countries.

Years later, Dr. Luigi Oltolina, the husband of Dr. Edouard Burguières' granddaughter, Emma, sent a letter which Stephen had in his possession. The letter indicated that he was bringing the medals to the family in the United States. That was because everyone in the branch of the family that had moved to Italy had died. Ernest, Sr., put the medals in a safe place in his home. When he died, they went into a safety deposit box. Sometime later, when the family was moving things out of the safety deposit box at the Whitney Bank, the only things contained in the box were the medals and a stack of dessert recipes. The medals are still retained by the Company and all stockholders were given a photograph of the medals during a recent stockholders' meeting. One piece is missing from the collection. Both Stephen and Scott Brown indicated that they knew where that item was, but they did not want to get into that part of the story.

Another story connected with the Italian branch of the family involved a family member from the United States who took care packages and gifts to Italy thinking that their relatives in Italy were starving after Italy had fallen during the Second War. When that person arrived at Lake Como, he found an elegant estate with all of the most sophisticated trappings. The property was named Villa d'Este, and it was the place where the family that everyone was worried about was residing. “Today,” Stephen said, "Villa d'Este is one of the greatest hotels in Europe."

Ernest Branch Editors' Notes

The tone of the interviews changes with the content of the conversations with Ernest and Stephen. The focus shifts from the country to the city. There is less of an impression of the hard work and toil in the fields and more of an emphasis on finery and social connections.

Ernest, Sr. commuted from New Orleans to the Cypremort plantation during the week to meet with Uncle Jules and Ed Burguières. Ernest had been on the Board of the JMB Company since 1907, mostly as treasurer. He saw his brothers Joseph, Denis and Henry die. Then he died in 1959. His father in-law, Robert Moore, must have made a big impact on his life and the lives of his children. It appears that it is through this connection with Robert Moore that Uncle Jules ended up spending so much time, from about 1912 to 1936, in Florida.

Of additional interest is the association of Robert Moore's uncle, also named Robert Moore, with Chapman H. Hyams. As Stephen recalled, Robert and Chapman co-founded a New Orleans investment banking firm in 1869. Chapman's wife was Sara. L. Todd, the aunt of Sara Hyams Trufant Burguières, wife of Henry I. Burguières. Sara and Henry named one of their sons Chapman Hyams Burguières. His son, Chapman Hyams Burguières, Jr., is interviewed in the book.